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Are my expectations to high????? (Read 8796 times)
electron
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Re: Are my expectations to high?????
Reply #7 - Mar 3rd, 2011 at 10:00pm
 
Yes, the diode is correct as your picture points out. You should draw the diode on the board in back so people seeing the video know it's right. I don't know if that will convince people, but that is not the way most diodes like that are.

I think the grid tie part is the best thing that's happened lately, now you can easily replace the power you use from the grid, even without batteries.

Nice that your GTI goes down to 10.5V, that should help it start up earlier and you won't have to reconfigure to 24V like I did.

The dump load controller should only come on at a higher voltage for a little bit, it shouldn't drag the batteries all the way down to 10.5V, that's a waste of power. I would set it for 15.5V eventually so you don't waste much energy and the battery should be able to take it.

Looking at the docs for your controller it looks like it will only turn on until the voltage drops below your set point, so it shouldn't drag the batteries down to 10.5V.

Your DVM should have a 10A setting, so you could use that as a temporary amp meter. Hook it up in a way that it won't accidentally disconnect when you are having high winds, you don't want that thing to over rev!

Have you thought about a stop switch?

I have seen the kill-a-watts on sale as low as $15, and walmart sells something that does the same sort of thing for $20 but I'm not sure how good it is. Easy to return it if you don't like it.

It seems like a lot of these wind turbine manufactures test their stuff in perfect wind, like a wind tunnel. But we know in the real world wind isn't smooth and it goes up and down all over the place. So you may see the 800W from yours in a quick peak one day, but average is going to be less, and maybe way less.

Oh, and if you have a battery charger you could use that to charge the batteries up to the point that the dump load trips to test the voltage. Not sure if it would push it to 15.5V though. But over 14V most likely. It's even possible to use one of those wall wart power supplies in a pinch, but it would probably get hot.

#4 is good for what you are doing. I like that you soldered the connections, everyone should do that.

Hope you will be ready for the winds!
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« Last Edit: Mar 3rd, 2011 at 10:40pm by electron »  
MrRebelMike
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Re: Are my expectations to high?????
Reply #6 - Mar 3rd, 2011 at 8:21pm
 
Electron-So i take it you think the diode is correct looking at the picture?others had said it looked backwards but thats the way it measured out.I have thought about some solar,it's funny originally all i wanted was to charge a set of batteries to offset my power usage and now i want solar and grid tie too.Is this stuff addictive or what????.All my wiring is #4 awg with soldered connections and ran cleanly and colar coded.I think i'll stop and get a good watts meter after work and do some more testing we're supposed to get some good winds in the next few days and storms.I think heres a link to a video http://www.youtube.com/user/MrRebelMike?feature=mhum#p/a/u/0/lVMmys4pUEE
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electron
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Re: Are my expectations to high?????
Reply #5 - Mar 3rd, 2011 at 6:55pm
 
That diode is the strangest thing I've ever seen! In all my years I've never seen one like that. So then it's OK and I assume you connected the GTI to the (+) coming in from the wind turbine.

A 300W Power Jack GTI (14 to 28V model) like I have will only put out 250W max on my 24V batteries if they are fully charged, and then drops to 240W and sits there for a while. It will draw up to 14A at times, and has an internal fuse of 20A so I think they programmed it to stay well within that range.

Is that what you have? Maybe post a pic or another video of your setup at this point.

One nice thing about solar, it's constant amps. The sun comes up and it puts out the amps, every single second.

With wind it's spotty and you never know what you are going to get or when.

The problem is, loads most people use are constant, so every second you don't get wind power you are losing ground.

Sometimes the wind comes in big, but it doesn't last and the average over a day is way less than you expect.

So don't just watch the peaks of power, count the minutes it sits there not producing.

I hope you are planning on putting up some solar panels also.

I am wondering about the wire size you are using there. It's hard to tell from the video.

Also, I wouldn't put ANYTHING on top of that dump load, I see a cardboard box, if the dump load gets used all that will get hot.

Another thing, the GTI will only start to produce if it sees 14V minimum. That's why I'm configured for 24V. My Air-X wind turbine is a 12V model but it will put out up to 40V open at times, the internal regulator is not working so it cranks out 24V just fine.

Yours should be able to put out 24V also since it doesn't have a regulator.

I think your dump load controller works on 24V also with one jumper change. I'm not sure about the dump load itself. Your inverter is another story.

And I use a kill-a-watt to measure the output, what are you using?

You should get an amp meter to put in the circuit as soon as you can. The voltage isn't as important as the amps for judging what you are getting power wise.

Just remember that on a DC circuit volts X amps = watts, and the 300W GTI is about 77% efficient at full output, it's 90% up to about 75W out.

You said "dump at 14.5 and burn down to 10.5", I'm not sure what that means, do you mean it will pull the batteries all the way down to 10.5V? That's not good.

Oh, and remember that the diode will drop about 0.7V through it, so the GTI in your configuration with the dump set at 14.5V would see 15.2V at times but then the dump would come on.

The GTI I have doesn't seem to want to give full output at below 16V, so it's better if you are running a 24V system.

But you did mention you connected it direct to the 12V battery and had output so I'm not sure what you have there.
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MrRebelMike
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Re: Are my expectations to high?????
Reply #4 - Mar 3rd, 2011 at 4:09pm
 
Electron-Thanks i am using the general and all in all i'm happy with it,I think most of my concerns are due to poor winds in my area.When i got home from work we were having around 7 mph winds.if i thru the breaker and disconnected from the batteries i was seeing around 15 volts from the turbin,i reconnected to the batteries and turned on the grid tie and sit down and observed,as the wind came up and i saw 11 volts the grid tie locked on and dropped the voltage below minimum and shut back off as power came back up it would try to lock on then draw down the voltage and shut back off,not much use there.I allso hooked straight to the batteries and it seemed to work but could see battery volts dropping,Now this is what confused me.As the grid tie was sitting there putting watts to the grid my watt meter was showing from 380 to 410 watts and around 3.8 amps all from a 300 watt inverter.I let it run for maybe 5 min. that way and shut it down,wasn't hot and never turned the fan on.now it's got me wondering again if my meter is very accurate because i allways thought my 6 100 watt bulbs were pulling way to many watts according to the bulb literature,so maybe i need a different meter.I've included a picture of the diode and down goes to the battery.Any thoughts????????
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electron
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Re: Are my expectations to high?????
Reply #3 - Mar 3rd, 2011 at 5:01am
 
I see it's a "Missouri Rebel 800 Watt Wind Turbine", is that right?
http://www.mwands.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=214

That's one of those car alternator (PMA) type of turbine, so there is no built in regulator and your diode when properly pointing "down" in your configuration, should be OK. It may get hot in high winds so keep an eye on it.

As for power output, it is spec'ed at only 6 MPH "Power up speed", so let us know how it's going!

One thing with wind, it's never constant!

I would put an amp meter on the (+) coming in from the wind turbine (before the diode) so you can watch it on windy days to get an idea of how it's doing. If you put one after the diode too, you will be able to watch what is going into your batteries and you will also see the GTI ramping up and taking power.

By the way, I've run my 300W grid tie on 24V batteries for hours with no problems (it's the "14 to 28V" type). It will just go to it's max output of about 240W and sit there till it gets down to about 13.4V and it quits putting out power.

You don't want to take your 24V batteries that low all the time, but that's what it will do if you let it go all the way down.

Oh, and in your configuration with the diode that won't happen, the battery won't push power into the GTI. If you put a switch across the diode it will!
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« Last Edit: Mar 3rd, 2011 at 5:14am by electron »  
electron
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Re: Are my expectations to high?????
Reply #2 - Mar 3rd, 2011 at 4:38am
 
Welcome!

I would need to know the exact model of the wind turbine to be sure, but if it's one with a built in regulator it may need to be connected directly to your batteries so that the regulator can sense the voltage of the batteries.

If it doesn't have a regulator, then it makes sense that you need that dump load controller, and you should be able to use that diode you put in to connect to a grid tie inverter like you are thinking.

In your video below you show the diode pointing up so positive would "flow" up. There should be a marking on the side of the diode showing which way the diode is pointing, and on all diodes like that I've seen, the bolt part is the "Cathode" or (-) as it shows on the attached pic.

Positive "flows" towards the bolt part.

So you want the bolt part going to your batteries. I hope that heat sink is big enough. I guess you will be checking it next time there is a big wind.

You want to fix that RIGHT NOW because your wind turbine may over speed since it now has NO LOAD AT ALL!

It should be safe to hook up a grid tie inverter to the Cathode (-) side of the diode (when you get things corrected) since you have the dump load controller (and even the batteries somewhat) to prevent a over voltage condition.

My 300W GTI has seen spikes of 40V and seems to have built in over voltage protection, which I wouldn't depend on. What it does when you go over about 30V is stop pulling any amps at all. You can see why it doesn't make a good dump load!

In your configuration, with the diode pointing correctly and the GTI connected to the wind turbine output first, the GTI will start taking energy as soon as any wind creates power, up to the GTI's limit, then any left over power will go to your batteries, in theory.

The GTI takes a few seconds to react to any surges of power as it ramps up, so in the real world the batteries will probably see a charge anyway.

You may need to turn off the AC power to the GTI to get a good charge on your batteries on some days, depending on what your uses will be.

I hope this helped.

Video link for reference:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9AgI2L9UGI8

The "Coleman Air C160M Controller" Dump Load Controller
http://www.colemanair.us/vp_asp/scripts/shopexd.asp?id=583

Diode direction pic below
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MrRebelMike
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Re: Are my expectations to high?????
Reply #1 - Mar 2nd, 2011 at 6:55pm
 
Nrodge1- Here is how i wired my controller acording to the manual.
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MrRebelMike
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Are my expectations to high?????
Mar 2nd, 2011 at 5:46pm
 
New to this forum but have read alot hear and seems like lots of knowledge about A.E. lurking.I have a 800 watt 12 volt turbin with two deep cycle batteries,I bought the best i could find that would still fit in my trailer there rated at 23 amps for 200 minutes.I live in central Mo. in a low wind zone and realize it's not optimal conditions,I've had my turbin hooked up since the first of the year and have never seen my batteries charged over 12.5 volts i know it's getting good voltage when the wind blows out of the turbin(I've seen 40 volts) just have never seen it ever go into dump,My controller is set to dump at 14.5 and burn down to 10.5 I use a 1000 watt inverter and have all my garage lights,radio and drill chargers running off of it and still have good power for a drill or saw to run and have never shut down due to low voltage.What i'm asking is am i expecting to much out of my simple system??? It just doesen't seem to charge as hard as i was expecting.
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